then is when he grabbed -- oh, i tried to sit up. that's when he grabbed me by the head and tried y ed sto slam my down. my body was on the grass. my head was on the cement. >> [ inaudible ]. >> yes, sir. that's as best as i could feel through my jacket. he just kept slamming and slamming. i kept yelling, help, help. >> he only had a small portion of my head on the concrete, so i tried to squirm off the concrete. when i did that, somebody here

opened the door, and i said, help me, help me. they said, i'll call 911. i said, no, help me, i need help. i don't know what they did. that's when my jacket moved up, and i had my firearm on my right-side hip. my jacket moved up. he saw it. i feel like he saw it, he looked at it. >> what did he say? >> after i shot him, he like sat up -- >> you're still in this position here? >> yes, sir. >> you're down here. >> yes, sir. he was on top of me like this. i shot him. i didn't think i hit him because he sat up and said, oh, you got me. you got it, you got me,

something like that. so i thought he was just saying i know you have a gun now, i heard it, i'm giving up. so i don't know if i pushed him off or he fell off me. either way, i got on top of him and pushed his arms apart. >> you flipped him over? >> i don't remember how i got on top of him. i'm sorry. but i got on his back. i moved his arms apart. when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head, i thought he had something in his hands. so i just -- i moved his hands apart. >> you had him face down then? >> yes, face down. i was on his back. then somebody came with a flashlight. i thought it was a police officer. so i said, are you the police? i still had my hands out. i said, are you the police? my gun is right here. he goes, no, no, i'm not. i'm calling the police. i said, don't call the police, help me restrain this guy. he said, i'm calling the police.

i said, i already called. they're on their way. they're coming. i need your help. then is when the police officer came around. i saw the police officer. i stood up and holstered my weapon. he said, who shot him? i said, i did and put my hands up. i said, i did. i don't know if he told me to. i just automatically turned my back to him and lifted my shirt and said my gun is right there. i told him a few times, my gun is right there. he goes, okay, i understand. i just need you to keep your hands up. he put the handcuffs on me and took my firearm from me. >> okay. any questions? >> i don't have any. anything else? >> no, sir. >> you got no idea where he came from or if he was over in this area? you walked by here, you never

saw him? >> no, i didn't see him at all. i looked as i was on the phone with the nonemergency. i looked. i didn't see him at all. i said, he's gone. i think i said something to the effect -- >> what was the lighting about that time? >> dark. >> none of the porch lights were on? nothing back here? >> no. >> it was about 7:15 when this happened, right? 7:00, 7:15? >> i could look at my phone. [ inaudible ] >> the only thing i saw was what was on my front door from

sanford pd that he lived in the neighborhood. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i have a broken nose. she said i could use stitches, but she'd rather not put them in. as long as i didn't mess with my head because the skin was already healing nicely. she said she didn't have to put stitches in right away. >> was this in the emergency? >> my primary care. she gave me a referral for an emt because she said that the swelling wouldn't let them do anything to my nose right now. once the swelling went down, if i had a deviated septum or

disfigured septum, they would be able to fix it, but there's nothing they could do right now. >> okay. let's go back to your house and see what this person has to say. >> she made note of everything. >> just turn around, get the back of his head. >> do you want me to move or you move? oh, she said i had a sprained

si. something about my sciatic something. she gave me just this -- scrapes there. i had a long-sleeve shirt and jacket on top. he was just focused on my head. there's a little bruising there. there's a cut here. >> the swelling went down. i remember yesterday -- i remember seeing swelling right here. i don't see it now. >> my wife is an rn student. she went to work.

>> continuing on the stand now is detective chris serino, the official detective who changed the official police report, wanting the charge to be manslaughter and not second-degree murder. let's listen in. >> -- february the 2 9th, did you have further contact with the defendant? >> yes, i did. >> was that at the sanford police department? >> yes, it was. >> was an interview conducted of the defendant on that day? >> yes, it was. >> okay. and were his miranda rights given by investigator singleton? >> yes, they were. >> your honor, in terms of time frame, we're going to have to play a recording now that's about 45 minutes or so. i'm fine, but -- >> do we want a recess before we begin the recording or just go forward? you're good? okay. >> your honor, at this time we would move into evidence state's exhibit 181. i'm sorry, that was -- i

apologize. it is 182. >> okay. no objection? >> that's correct, your honor. >> okay. 182 will come into evidence. >> your honor, we would ask that the court read the same instruction. >> i need it from the clerk. ladies and gentlemen, at the direction of the court, certain portions of defendant's interview with the sanford police department investigators have been excised or redacted based on legal determinations made by the court. the parts excised or redacted are not relevant and you are not to concern yourselves with why this occurred or with the content of any excised or redacted portions. >> may i proceed, your honor? >> yes, you may.

>> you had previously testified about a recording. this was is actually videotaped. is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> there are parts of it, though, that apparently you have a recorder too that's only audio. do you recall that? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and when you're not in the room, i guess there's audio parts and you also at the end leave the room with the defendant and i believe investigator singleton too, where it's only audio because you go somewhere elsewhere there's not an ability to videotape this. >> yes, sir. [ inaudible ]

>> you have the right to remain sile silent. anything you used will be used in court as evidence against you. you are entitled to talk to an attorney now or any time during questioning. if you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you without cost. do you wish to consult with an attorney first or have one during this interview? >> no. >> has any one at any time threatened to coerce you or promised you anything to make a statement? >> no, sir. >> did you want to talk with us? >> yes. >> [ inaudible ].

>> i just don't want anything to happen. you came here voluntarily, right? >> yes. >> all right. let's go to lisa bloom, msnbc legal analyst. it's a little hard to hear some of this. can you explain what's going on right now? lisa bloom, are you there? >> oh, i can hear you. sorry. had a bit of an audio problem. sorry, can you repeat the question? >> sure. some of this is hard to hear. can you explain to the audience what's going on now? >> yes, this is the videotaped interrogation of george zimmerman. we know he did cooperate with the police immediately after the incident. he gave a number of different statements. handwritten, audio, videotaped. >> all right. thank you.

>> how is your wife? >> she is surprisingly well. >> joining us now also is former pennsylvania congressman and former prosecute patrick murphy. thanks for being with us. we're looking at some footage here that is in the trial that the jury is hearing, at least in some format. what is the nature of this kind of material and how much does it move a jury when obviously some of it to the untrained eye seems hard to follow or rather routine. >> right. well, this is critical for the defense. what you have is george zimmerman basically saying i acted in self-defense so i have immunity from prosecution. it's important because the prosecution is saying, hey, he testified. he's giving the examples of -- or at least what he's saying

happened that day, which is critically important, which frankly will show if you're arguing for self-defense will go to the question, will he actually take the stand? the prosecution is doing this step by step, building the case to convict him of second-degree murder and showing his testimony over two days after the fact. >> all right. let's bring in one other guest. we have paul henderson, veteran prosecutor and legal analyst. one thing that we've noticed is that even if you are the initial aggressor in an attack, you can legally recover your innocence and become eligible for self-defense, but how does that work? >> well, here's what happens. let's just say -- and this is why it's raising the issue of all of the stand your ground laws and all of the elements around self-defense. so even if you initially initiate an aggressive act, it's not necessarily elevated to a

level of deadly force. so you're constantly evaluating. this is why you're hearing the testimony from him saying that, you know, the cement and the sidewalk is being used as an actual weapon. and he's talking about his hand and mouth being covered so that he could not breathe because these are elements that tend to drift towards you could die based on the interaction. and that's why zimmerman is trying to have these conversations and evidence and testimony talking about how dangerous this encounter was because it allowed him or opened the door to use self-defense at a deadly level. this is why we're going to face a lot of controversy here. a lot of this is flying in the face of the testimony and evidence we heard last week. >> all right. let's take a quick break. full coverage of the george zimmerman trial continues right here when we get back on "the cycle." sons. i go to angie's list to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you

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and welcome back to msnbc coverage of the george zimmerman murder trial. earlier today we heard from an fbi voice recognition expert about that 911 call on the night trayvon martin was killed. take a look. >> let me make sure i've got this clear, doctor. there were, as you referenced, in that 45-second portion, there was a series of that, what you've described as a screaming noise. how long total, both what you call stepped on and unstepped on? >> less than 30 seconds was the only area where nothing else but

screaming was coming through. >> what were you able to do with that amount of sample and that type of sample? >> we checked and i have to render my final conclusion. that type of, you know, voice sample is not fit for the purpose of voice comparison. this kind of, you know, judgment is based upon the research and also common sense type of understanding among the community. >> it sounds like you are current insofar as what's happening in the scientific community of speaker identification. >> i do believe that i am completely familiar with cutting-edge technology in scientific studies. >> if i heard you earlier correctly, there is no

methodology or science that can reliably evaluate screams as to speaker identification at this time. >> that is correct. >> and nbc's kerry sanders is at the courthouse in sanford. what's going on right now? >> reporter: well, right now inside the courtroom the jury has been listening to a significant portion of the videotaped re-enactment and the videotaped interview that the police had with him the day after trayvon martin was shot and killed. now, on the re-enactment, george zimmerman takes detective chris serino through the neighborhood and points out places where he says developments took place and he in many cases actually physically tries to show on camera what he says happened that day. there is also the videotaped sit-down interview back at the police department where again he's taken through all of the events that happened that day,

according to his version, and of course there is much earlier in the day the presentation of his written statement and an audio statement with yet another detective. all of this is important because the prosecution is attempting to show the inconsistencies in his retelling of the story. small changes that maybe taken in totality, the state believes, may raise questions about the credibility of the story he's telling, where at the same time, the defense asked among the experts and the detectives there whether it was common when somebody told a story over and over, whether there were slight changes and inconsistencies. the first detective to speak to george zimmerman from her experience, indeed, that does happen. >> thank you for that report. as you said, we'll see throughout today some of the ways that this kind of footage is being used. let's dip back in and take a listen to some of that footage

of mr. zimmerman's interview. >> obviously, a lot of questions have been brought up. like i said, is there anything you haven't said that might be -- >> i pray to god that someone videotaped it or the neighborhood has put up a video camera that i don't know about or something. >> it's not guaranteed, but like i said, it's one possibility i hope for myself. [ inaudible ] how did he manage to bang your head into the concrete? how did he do that? >> i was on my back.

when he first punched me, i don't know if i immediately fell down or he threw me down or i was stumbling. i ended up on my back. he was on top of me, mounted. he kept punching me. then when i started yelling for help, that's when he grabbed my head and started to -- >> grabbed your head by your ears, by the sides? >> i don't remember. every time he punched my nose, it just -- >> okay. how many times did you get punched in the nose? a couple, six? >> i don't remember. >> you've been listening to a police interview with george zimmerman being played in court right now. i want to bring back our legal eagles, msnbc legal analyst lisa bloom, veteran prosecutor paul henderson and former prosecutor patrick murphy. i want to look ahead a little bit because patrick, you were saying earlier that detective serino has said some -- has some

major things to say, and he said some major things already today. talk about what the detective is testifying to. >> sure. well, first, he's the lead investigator in this case. the fact that he testified previously that zimmerman had, one, a hero complex. number two, he said zimmerman seemed very scripted. that is going to be coming out. it's going against the defense's argument that it was self-defense and they walked him through this thing. and there was some serious inconsistencies that the prosecution is bringing up. things such as -- well, rachel je jeantel testified last week that trayvon said, get off. the fact trayvon had no blood or wounds on his hands. the fact he said he was scared -- that zimmerman was scared of trayvon. but why did he get out of the car to pursue him? lastly, that trayvon popped out

of the bushes, but there were no bushes around there. so these will go against his earlier statements before the trial. >> paul, walk us through in a case like this how the prosecution is using a lot of this archived material as essentially admissible testimony. they have mr. zimmerman speaking, as we said, to law enforcement authorities and in some cases the prosecution's arguing that reveals inconsistencies. walk us through how that works in a case like this. >> well, one of the things that they did first was present us with jeantel's testimony. that's the foundation. that's the base. we have her story. they considered her to be their most important witness. i still think her testimony was good and helpful for them. now we're seeing the testimony through these tapes, through these videotapes, where we're getting to see him on tapes. you can hear a pin drop as everybody is watching to see his manner, his tone, to watch him

for credibility as he's telling these stories. it's the inconsistencies that are going to be highlighted, that the prosecution is going to point out and expand upon and say. now, everyone's story is a little bit different when you tell it. but these are key issues that are inconsistent and they are going to be painted as not inconsistencies but lies to defend himself, to try and cover up his actions, and they're really going to focus on the things that aren't making sense or aren't adding up from the other testimony from the witnesses, and it's going to put a lot more pressure when they flesh out all of these inconsistencies with zimmerman to put him on the trial, to make him get up on the stand. we still don't know if he's going to do it yet. i know the prosecution wants him to get in that chair and tell his story so he can point these things out to him and have the jury see all the inconsistencies that he's been finding throughout the trial based on the testimony that we're hearing today in large part and the videotapes we're observing. >> i think you lead into one of

the key questions of this entire trial, will george zimmerman take the stand? i think reasonable minds can disagree about such things. i want to hear lisa bloom's opinion of whether or not george zimmerman will or should take the stand. then i want to the hear patrick murphy's opinion. >> depends on your point of view. if you're his defense attorney, you're going to do everything possible to keep him off the stand. the prosecution has now put in his statements today, his handwritten statement, his audio statement, his videotape statement, his videotaped re-and accountme -- re-enactment. why would you put him on the stand and subject him to a rigorous cross-examination? i don't see any reason why they would. by the way, chris serino is the first police officer we're seeing in this case who actually asked him some tough questions. asked him rapid fire, staccato-style questions making him answer, answer, answer. i think that's something the jury probably appreciates. some of the previous police officers were comforting him,

seemed to be going along with his story. >> lisa makes excellent points. patrick murphy, you disagree. >> i've tried panels before. these six folks are human beings. yes, the judge is going to say zimmerman has a fifth amendment right against self-incrimination, he doesn't have to take the stand. the fact is this, there's a 17-year-old young man who was unarmed and killed that day almost a year and a half ago. if he doesn't take the stand, that jury is going to say, why didn't he stand among his peers? >> paul, you agree with that? >> i absolutely agree. the jury is sitting there listening to these tapes. they're listening to the videos. they're watching, they're observing. at the end of the day, they want to get on the stand. if you talk to juries after a trial, they always tell you that they want every witness that could get up to get up to tell them so that they can judge independently their own observations about credibility. they want the prosecutor to ask him those tough questions

because they're thinking them as well. as they're watching these audiotapes just like all of us are in the audience, we're writing down questions we would like to have asked. if he doesn't get up on that stand, i think it's going to work against him. zimmerman is in the fight for his life right now. trayvon martin has already lost his. but i think this is so important and so crucial that he convey his story and try and sell his version of what happened that night that he's got to still get on the stand. that's what i'm looking to happen still. >> lisa, i know you think he's not going to take the stand. >> of course we all want him to take the stand. of course the jury wants him to take the stand. the question is, what is his best trial strategy? o.j. simpson did not take the stand in his criminal case. acquitted. casey anthony did not take the stand in her case. acquitted of the most serious charges. jodi arias, the last high-profile case i covered, took the stand for something like 17 days. she was destroyed. she was convicted. it is not in his interest to take the stand. >> good points all.

more witness testimony in the george zimmerman trial in a moment along with a quick rundown of other news stories in "the cycle" today. one could affect sex drive, but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel. the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are or may become pregnant or are breast-feeding, should not use androgel. serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep,

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right now in the news cycle, a perfect storm. that's how authorities north of phoenix described the wildfire conditions that killed 19 firefighters, all members of an elite team. it is the deadliest single fire fighting incident since the september 11th attacks. president obama called it heartbreaking. that fire is now more than 8,000 acres wide and 0% contained. >> there's probably no greater burden for a fire chief to have to deal with than talking to family where they've lost their loved ones. they're very strong. they're holding up well. our organization's holding up well. but we're going through an incredible period of grief. crowds remain gathered in tahrir square right now in a much more cheerful mood after egypt's defense minister

promises that the nation's military stands with its people. that statement followed violent protests in cairo's tahrir square, marking one year since mohamed morsi was democratically elected. appearing in a joint news conference with the tanzanian president this morning, president obama warned the potential for more violence still exists. >> our commitment to egypt has never been around any particular individual or party. our commitment has been to a process. what's clear right now is that although mr. morsi was elected democratically, there's more work to be done to create the conditions where everybody feels their voices are heard and the government is responsive and truly representative. what we've encouraged the government to do is to reach out to the opposition and work through these issues in a political process. at that same news conference

today, the president also addressed the future for self-described nsa whistleblower edward snowden saying there had been high-level discussions about how to extradite him back to the states. meanwhile, russian president vladimir putin says snowden will have to stop leaking secrets if he hopes to get asylum in russia. the u.s. has annulled snowden's passport. >> you were just mentioning the massive wildfire out west. the flames, we're learning, are being fueled by dry, hot, and windy weather. talking record heat here. 128 degrees in death valley, california, for example over this weekend. sin city was also hotter than normal with las vegas tying an all-time record of 117 degrees. wow. no picnic out here in the northeast eertd, where some areas have received more than half a foot of rain since the weekend weather. nick walker tells us if there's any relief in sight. >> hi, guys. the heat continuing throughout the west. look at some of these

temperatures today. above 100 degrees in boise and salt lake city. record highs in seattle of 91 degrees. pretty tough for folks without air-conditioning. continuing to see the heat building here. boise, salt lake city all still above 100 as we head into tomorrow. the heat not really abating. nor will the dry conditions abate all that much in the southwest as well. we might get a stray thunderstorm. that would only serve to maybe spark new wildfires in the southwest. hot and dry conditions prevail with this upper-level ridge of high pressure. high pressure, sinking air. the air compresses, heats up. but then we've got this upper-level trough in the east. that is what's keeping us cool and wet. so wet around the new york city area we've seen two to three inches of rain just today. flooding of underpasses has been a big deal as well as flooding over roadways and even some of the transit systems have been affected by the high winds that have knocked over some trees with these thunderstorms. we'll continue to see wet weather not just today but also over the next couple of days.

very slow-moving system here so even into midweek we'll continue to keep it wet throughout much of the eastern united states. as far as the rainfall amounts, they could be very, very profound, as much as two to three inches here around portions of the northeast and the mid-atlantic. even more than that in northern georgia and in tennessee, three to five inches. look at the panhandle of florida where five to eight inches could fall in the next seven days. looks like some wet holidays coming up. back to you guys. >> all right, nick walker. thank you very much. the lead investigator in the george zimmerman case will be on the stand. we will be coming back to you with that up ahead.

and welcome back to our coverage of the george zimmerman trial. earlier today we heard testimony from sanford police second quarter doris singletonho interviewed zimmerman the night of the shooting. take a look. >> did you ask the defendant whether he understood his rights, ma'am? >> yes, i did.

>> did he indicate whether he did or not? >> he said he understood. >> did he agree to waive his rights? >> he did. >> did you notice injuries on him? >> yes. >> okay. and did you discuss those with him, whether he needed any medical treatment or not? >> briefly, yes. >> did he complain of an injury when you were speaking of -- my head is, you know, i can't think, i'm in pain, i just can't think. did he ever express that to you? >> no, he never said those things in that way. >> every time that george zimmerman spoke with you, it was voluntary? >> yes. >> and he was given full notice he had the right to stop at any point. >> each time, yes. >> in your experience when taking multiple statements from a witness, sometimes there are differences. >> yes. >> how does a traumatic event affect their ability to retell stories multiple times? >> i'm not sure how it works, but i know it happens. >> in the written statement that mr. zimmerman wroteut tha he

called trayvon martin a suspect. did he know trayvon martin's name at that time? >> no. >> did you? >> no. >> okay. so he had to be called something, would you agree? >> yes. >> did you consider suspect to be such an outrageous term to use that it caused you concern? >> i didn't read it at the time. >> how about today? >> no, i don't think it's unusual. >> all right. let's bring back in msnbc legal analyst lisa bloom, veteran prosecutor paul henderson and former pennsylvania congressman and a former prosecutor patrick murphy. thank you for sticking with us. lisa, i want to the start with you. based on what we were just hearing there, that's testimony that would seem to suggest that the defense wants the jury to think more about mr. zimmerman's cooperation with law enforcement than anything else that may seem

allegedly inconsistent in his testimony. >> well, it's certainly a point for them that george zimmerman did cooperate from the very beginning. i was fascinated by his use of the term suspect. you know, the police officer who did the investigation didn't see to find anything wrong with that. that's kind of cop speak. that's the way police officers talk. but of course, trayvon martin was never a suspect. he was never suspected of any crime by anyone except george zimmerman, who h was committing any crime. when think said, toall him somew about the young man, the teenager, the 17-year-old boy. there are a lot of other things you could have called him if you didn't know his name besides>> ? is retracts from other statements mr. zimmerman has given, including in his written statement when he says, i ho unholstered my firearm.

someav suggested that language sounds like an individual familiar or potentially overly familiar with some of the rules of the road for law enforcement. >> i agree. as a prosecutor, i would be pointing out all of these things. i would put them up on a big board and highlight them to show the jury, how do we know what zimmerman's state of mind was on that night? here are some of the factors. here are some of the indicators that let us know what he was doing and what he was thinking. he kept calling young trayvon martin the suspect. he was never a suspect. he had never committed a crime there that evening. he didn't know anything about him. his frame of mind was such that that's the lens he used. that's how i would use that language and that's the value of listening to these stories and to start tracking these little subtle interpretations that define what zimmerman was doing that night and what he ultimately did on that night and you frame it in a way that makes it look badly for him, which is

why i think he'll need to take the stand soon. >> all right. let's go back to detective chris serino testifying now. >> george, this is randy. that's rebecca. can we get a chair? okay. here we go. this is your 911 call. >> we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy. >> real suspicious guy, okay? one more time.

why suspicious? it was raining. he was -- >> all right. let me talk to lisa and patrick for a moment. some viewers may have felt that george zimmerman's testimony that we're hearing about today, some of it may be inconsistent with some of the things we've heard from some eyewitnesses. he said that trayvon martin jumped out of the bushes, and some people have testified there were, in fact, no bushes around for that sort of thing to happen. the idea that his head was slammed repeatedly and the medical testimony that we heard last week suggested maybe that was not the case. the idea that he got out to look for a street sign when he was the neighborhood watch captain of this area, suggests maybe he should know what street he's on. lisa, do you think these are inconsistencies? do you think these things will shape the trial? the same thing to you, patrick. >> i think you and our viewers who are pointing this out are really hitting the nail on the head on some of the most important issues in this trial. not only george zimmerman's

inconsistencies with his own story as he retells it several times, but inconsistencies with some of those neighbors who appear not to have any bias whatsoever, who are just calling it as they see it. george zimmerman as the neighborhood watch coordinator is somebody who called in many times, who patrolled the neighborhood many times, didn't know the name of one of the streets. there were only three streets in that gated community. i find that probably the hardest one to believe. >> patrick, what do you think? >> and i think -- i agree with lisa. those inconsistencies are going to be damning for zimmerman. also, the fact that as trayvon -- as zimmerman said, he was scared of trayvon but got out of the car. trayvon popped out of the bushes, but it is very clear on the record there were no bushes. and to the team here, you know, you have to take the 30,000-foot view here. why was zimmerman, who was already arrested previously for assaulting a police officer and also ordered on a domestic violence case to stay away from someone under a productive order, why was he able to get a

concealed carry permit? which really led to this act of violence against a 17-year-old unarmed young male named trayvon martin. these are the policy questions the folks down in florida should be asking themselves so tragedies like this never happen again. >> compelling questions. we'll be back with more of the george zimmerman trial after this. what if we took all this produce from walmart and secretly served it up in the heart of peach country. it's a fresh-over. we want you to eat some peaches and tell us what you think. they're really juicy. it must have just come from the farm. this right here is ideal for me. walmart works directly with growers to get you the best quality produce they've ever had. what would you do if i told you all this produce is from walmart? wow! is it really? (laughter) find fresh peaches and all your quality produce. backed by our 100% money back guarantee. walmart. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases.

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welcome back to our coverage and to lisa, paul and patrick. lisa, i want to start with you as people watch this trial and evidence and think about what is the burden of proof. what are the standards. you and i have talked about this before. i want to put up on the screen just the basic jury instructions ta this jury's going to get when they have to make up their mind. there has to be, if they go to a reasonable doubt, if they're looking at a not guilty verdict, a reasonable doubt is not a mere possible doubt or a speculative, imaginary or forced doubt. under the florida standards. but if there is not an abiding conviction of guilt or of having a conviction, it's one which is not stable and waivers and vacillates then the charge may not be proved beyond every reasonable doubt. finally and i want to get your thoughts on applying all this. finally under florida rules a reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the defendant may arise from the evidence, a conflict in the evidence or the lack of evidence under the prosecution's burden. we've talked a bit today about

conflicts in evidence. but walk us through how this standard might actually work here. >> i think the reasonable doubt instruction you just read is about as clear as mud to most people. it's not an abiding conviction. >> it's not just me? >> no, and the word reasonable might be one of the most used words in american law and the most difficult to understand because what's reasonable to me might not be what's reasonable to you. but reasonable doubt is a very important concept in this case. we're going to hear a lot about it from the defense in closing argument. essentially, do they feel that george zimmerman took the life of trayvon martin for second degree murder with a depraved mind. that's a pretty high standard that he intentionally took this life with a depraved mind. there's a lower standard for manslaughter. they're going to have a reasonable doubt if they think it was self-defense. >> i agree with lisa. the prosecution has such an incredible burden. they have to get six of six of those jurors and that's why this one is going to be tough for the

prosecution, especially when you talk about the second degree murder because as lisa said, you have to show beyond a reasonable doubt, hatred, spite or evil intent on behalf of zimmerman. the prosecution is basically arguing he was profiling trayvon martin. it's a tough burden. that's why manslaughter is a tough degree. >> what do you think, paul? >> good job, the prosecution in laying out that evidence showing that there's an indication that what was in zimmerman's frame of mind to give them that evidence to get them beyond a reasonable doubt. i'm hoping that's where we're going with this case. >> lisa, paul, patrick, thank you for being here this hour. keep it on msnbc for covering coverage of the trial. the martin bashir show hosted today by joy reed.

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i'm roy reid in for martin bashir. the second week of witness testimony in the george zimmerman trial under way at this hour. we'll bring you live coverage. let's gets to our panel, lisa bloom, former prosecutor john q. kelly. i want to ask, first of all, about the testimony earlier today by officer -- by officer doris singleton. she took the tand earlier today and played back a recording what was played to her in her initial interview with zimmerman. take a listen. >> i could see people looking and some guy yells out call 911. i said help me, help me. he's killing me. and he puts his hand on my nose and on my mouth. and he says, you're going to die

tonight. and i don't remember much after that. >> lisa, that sounds like george zimmerman is talking about john manolo, the person who came out with a flashlight. he says he said to him, help me, he's killing me but john didn't testify to that. is that a problem for the defense. >> it's absolutely a problem for the defense. every inconsistency in his story is a problem for george zimmerman. that's why most defense attorneys don't want defendants talking to law enforcement. you have the right to remain silent. most defense attorneys want their clients to exercise it. he did not do that. he gave multiple statements inconsistent with his own story or another witness he's story that's a problem for him. >> chris serrino is on the stand now testifying. let's go back and listen in. >> you wanted us to believe that you were concerned about having a flashlight to move back where you just ran?